Questions about diet and care

[Allie]

Over the past 2.5 yrs I have been given many different opinions on how a Betta should be fed. I want to make sure these next betta last a heck of a lot longer than my last 11 http://209.85.62.26/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' />
Advice I have been given and used on my last guys were: From, once a day 5 pellets or flaked food.  To never feed flake and feed 3 times a day.
Since I have gotten my two baby VT girls I have been feeding them 3 times a day pellets/high protien crisps and thawed shrimp, and no bloating is happening like I was told it would.
I am following a fellow Betta lovers regimen, not one lost ever and she has 11 Betta now, one for over 2 yrs the rest she has gotten since April.
She does a gravel vac once a month, water change every two weeks with daily cleaning up of any debris with a turkey baster. I have noticed a huge difference in the growth of my girls I have only had for 16 days, the colors are popping and seeing more of a copper in my orange/red girl. They look a heck of a lot better than any of my other Betta I have had in such a short time.
 As you may know I am am getting a pair of Heather's red dragons and going to try breeding for the first time.  I want to make sure I am prepared for it in every way.
As soon as I get the guts to do it.  http://209.85.62.26/html/emoticons/unsure.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='unsure.gif' />
So....
Anyone care to share their own Betta care regimen??
What's your feeding schedule, how often do you feed?
Best quality pellets?  Anyone try Kens fish's betta pellets.
What do I need besides bloodworm to condition my pair?  
Thanks ahead of time
Allie

[crazy4bettas]

Well Allie, I don't know that mine is necessarily the best regime, but I'll pass it along.  I think we all need to just find what works for each of us with our circumstances.

For the adults, I house in cycled 5 gallon tanks with females in a planted sorority.  I try to do a 25-30% w/c with vacuum weekly (doesn't always happen).  My "jarred" males are in 1 Gallon tanks which I try to do a 95% w/c on every 2-3 days.  My oldest female (a VT with huge growths on her and a severly twisted spine from those growths) is about 3 yrs old and lives in a 1 Gallon "AquaPlanet" tank with an undergravel bubbler only.  No heater so she gets huge temperature fluctuations and she gets 95% w/c weekly if possible.  Ironically, she's probably been my healthiest fish so far (other than the tumors).

I feed once daily (because of my schedule and number of fish, I simply don't have time to feed them all in the morning before heading to work).  I personally think that many small meals would be better, but it's just not possible for me. I try to rotate what I feed... mostly pellets (using Nutrafin atm and feeding 5-6/fish/day), alternating with frozen bloodworms, frozen brine shrimp, frozen/fresh white worms, frozen fruit flies.  I don't feed flakes to the adults - only use flakes finely ground for the fry.  They also get a day of fasting but it is generally only when I'm simply too exhausted to feed them, so it's not really a "regular" thing.  I also throw in an algae wafer periodically to the planted sorority - ostentatiously for the ottos, but the girls generally pig out on it first  http://209.85.62.26/html/emoticons/dry.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='dry.gif' />

Since they are already getting conditioning food on a regular basis, when conditioning I simply move them into nearly bare tanks, male and female side-by-side.  The female is isolated from the others in her tank (I've found that they respond better when "lonely").  I "card" them by putting a blocker between the two tanks and allowing them to see each other for 20-30 minutes once or twice a day.  Then I follow the advised breeding routine of introduction, etc.

Once the fry are jarred, I feed them twice a day to three times a day and feed much the same except I use smaller pellets (Betta Pro right now).  I also try to do w/c every 2-3 days.  I get much faster/better growth with lots of w/c and more frequent feeding.

 

[zenafish]

For dryfood, I feed my bettas 3 types: Attison's betta pro, Hikari betta biogold and golden pearls. My preference in that order. I feed my bettas once in the morning, and on weekdays once in the evening. I don't feed evening meals on weekends.

I give my bettas Hikari frozen bloodworms and/or frozen daphnia as a treat once a week or so.

For conditioning breeders, I feed them Attison pro in the morning with frozen bloodworms, and evenings frozen bloodworms and live daphnia. I feed that everyday until spawning. No fasting.

I'd recommend against flake food. It's messy in my opinion and leaves lots uneaten.

Fry gets microworms, baby brine shrimp then golden pearls. When they're big enough they get frozen daphnia, frozen bloodworms and eventually wean to Attison pro.

HTH..http://209.85.62.26/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' />

Oh, and water change...every other day on cups and beanies, 100%. 60% once every two weeks for the 2.5gals, each of which has a sponge filter running. 80% once a week for the 2.5gals without sponge filters, but each of those has a live plant in it. Vacuum fry growout everyday (that's about 5% WC), and 25% once a week.

[Allie]

Thank you both, that does help.  SO betta who are just pets can be neglected *so to speak* more than say a cichlid tank.  B/c they seem to do better as adults in "dirtier" water or with more of the right bacteria or something.
It makes sense about clean water at the fry/growing stage. It's what we do with our African cichlid fry  http://209.85.62.26/html/emoticons/cool.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='cool.gif' />

[Ian Turkstra]

Hi Allie.  I'd like to comment on your reply there.  I don't think anyone here would advocate neglecting their adult bettas or imply that bettas do better in dirtier water.

The key is that water is changed more frequently with the fry and juveniles because this helps promote faster growth.  I'm not 100% sure if it's been determined the exact cause of this effect (whether it dilutes a growth-inhibitory hormone or if it's just due to reducing the wastes).  Adults have reached their growth potential so they don't need as frequent water changes. Zena's water change schedule posted above is certainly providing a great deal of fresh water for her adult fish.  I have seen her tanks and can guarantee you owuld not consider her tanks to have 'dirty' water.

I am guessing you didn't mean to imply that adults can have dirtier water or to actually neglect your fish more than you would other species, but I've heard other people (elsewhere) have similar comments and it strikes a cord woith me http://209.85.62.26/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' />

-Ian  

[zenafish]

"Dirty" sponges perhaps http://209.85.62.26/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' />, but NEVER dirty water. Bettas' fins rot VERY QUICKLY in dirty water, and their gills get ammonia burns much easier too. Cycled water is actually preferred, although difficult to do if the water body is too small.

There's a little bit of common sense involved too. For example, although it sounds like I feed my bettas a lot, it's only in terms of variety, but not quantity. They only get small amounts of food each time and therefore they don't poop overly much. Other people may feed the same food but in larger quantities, then my maintenance routine will likely spell disaster for them. Even for my bettas, I'd check the tanks (they're all bare bottom tanks) everytime I do feeding and determine if any of them needs an extra water change in between schedule.

[Allie]

I don't mean dirtier water...hence the so to speak.  But water that has more age to it. I have gotten advice to clean a 5g filtered with one betta every 2nd day, my betta all had issues beofre the parasite came alone.  Too much cleaning doesn't leave the good stuff in the water.
  I am more concerned about keeping my adults healthy before I even get to the breeding part.  http://209.85.62.26/html/emoticons/blink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='blink.gif' />   Let alone taking care of betta fry.  
I feed mine 3 times a day different things & small portions, siphon out left overs which there aren't usually any. lol

[crazy4bettas]

I think that's true Allie.  I personally believe that people on some of the sites (ie: UB) advocate for cleaning WAY too much.  Like I mentioned, my old VT female gets horrible treatment in comparison to the HMs and she has lived the longest.  

However, HMs and VTs seem to need "cleaner" water than VTs as well.  Also, I have found that my offspring are MUCH hardier than my imports.  I have attributed it to a couple of different things: 1) they haven't had the stress of importation with all the flying and shipping involved and 2) they have been raised in my water and are used to my husbandry practices so they aren't as sensitive to what is likely a difference in water quality and so forth.  

[Ian Turkstra]

Hi again http://209.85.62.26/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' />

Yeah I would say that some people definitely do advocate for WAY too many water changes.  Every 2nd day in a 5G filtered tank is unnecessary.  

I try to get mine changed every week or so for the adults.  The juvies and fry get more frequent changes unless my schedule does not warrant that (do not wanna know how much I work some weeks), but then I change as often as I can reasonably do so.

The beneficial bacteria you are referring to actually live on the surfaces of the filter media, and the tank walls and anything else in the tank.  Only a very small percentage of them actually live in the free water.

-Ian  

[zenafish]

In my opinion, a sterile environment would only cause heightened sensitivity...kinda like the allergy effect, or how tourists get sick drinking Carribean tap water, while the locals have no problems with it.

Also, watch the temperature. Bettas get sick easily when the water's too cold (below 77F).

[Allie]

In my opinion, a sterile environment would only cause heightened sensitivity...kinda like the allergy effect, or how tourists get sick drinking Carribean tap water, while the locals have no problems with it.

Also, watch the temperature. Bettas get sick easily when the water's too cold (below 77F).

Yup that what I was thinking.  My temps are at 79/80 on our tanks here.  
I remember my first 3 vt boys.  Nigel lasted for a year and he was my .5 betta kit betta.  The other two died one of ich (temp fluctuation) had him a month and the other had dropsy the first week I had him.  Obviously Betta quality is an issue too.

[janftica]

I am only doing a turkey baster cleanup once or twice a week with the adults...complete WC every 2 weeks.  Babies at 5 weeks old I am now changing about 50% every day or other day...as I have to heat the aged water and that takes 24 hours.  I turkey baster the bottom as often as I can.

My oldest betta is Ruby a red PK female that I have owned for over 4 years now...she's even survived jumping out ot the tank and living on my dresser for a few minutes....she's lucky I found her in time.  

She shed all her scales off and renewed them in a salt water bath I kept her in.  She is fat, and bumpy, but comes when I call her for dinner!  Before that my oldest was Simon a Turquoise blue VT....he lived to be 5 years old...died of natural causes.

Neither Simon nor Ruby got regular WC, maybe once a month, they also lived in sororiety tanks with Danios, Neon Tetras, a Blue Lobster and spotted cat fish, and now baby guppies....

Bettas are hardier than most people think.  I also talk to my fish  http://209.85.62.26/html/emoticons/blink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='blink.gif' />  maybe that makes a difference...who knows?

[Allie]

I am only doing a turkey baster cleanup once or twice a week with the adults...complete WC every 2 weeks.  Babies at 5 weeks old I am now changing about 50% every day or other day...as I have to heat the aged water and that takes 24 hours.  I turkey baster the bottom as often as I can.

My oldest betta is Ruby a red PK female that I have owned for over 4 years now...she's even survived jumping out ot the tank and living on my dresser for a few minutes....she's lucky I found her in time.  

She shed all her scales off and renewed them in a salt water bath I kept her in.  She is fat, and bumpy, but comes when I call her for dinner!  Before that my oldest was Simon a Turquoise blue VT....he lived to be 5 years old...died of natural causes.

Neither Simon nor Ruby got regular WC, maybe once a month, they also lived in sororiety tanks with Danios, Neon Tetras, a Blue Lobster and spotted cat fish, and now baby guppies....

Bettas are hardier than most people think.  I also talk to my fish  http://209.85.62.26/html/emoticons/blink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='blink.gif' />  maybe that makes a difference...who knows?

Wow 4 & 5 yrs.  I hope mine can last that long this time.
Thanks for all of your input.  I can see I am on the right track.  http://209.85.62.26/html/emoticons/cool.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='cool.gif' />